Getting Past Arrogance: Protecting Health When People Refuse to Change

Welcome to The Exposure Scientist Podcast, where every day exposures and their real-world impact take center stage. In today's episode, Dr. Alex LeBeau dives into a pressing challenge faced by industrial hygienists and exposure scientists: how do you break through when stubborn attitudes and workplace arrogance put people's safety on the line? Dr. LeBeau shares personal stories and insights from the field, highlighting the frustrations of working with individuals who resist change and insist on doing things "the way they've always been done"—even when it means putting health and lives at risk. Join the conversation as we explore why some won't take action until a serious incident occurs, and what we can do, as a community, to help shift mindsets before it's too late. If you've ever wondered how exposure science and psychology collide in the real world, you don't want to miss this thought-provoking discussion.

Contact Dr. Alex LeBeau at Exposure Consulting for exposure litigation support or Exposure Science Consulting.

Transcript

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You might not realize it, but we are exposed to dozens of hazards every day. Can any of these hazards negatively impact your health? Definitely. This is the Exposure Scientist Podcast. My name is Alex LeBeau, and here we answer your questions and concerns on what you may be exposed to every day. Welcome to the Exposure Scientist Podcast. Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Exposure Scientist podcast. One thing I'd like to have a discussion with everyone about is how people interact with industrial hygienists. You know, we do it from an exposure science standpoint. It's kind of growing off a previous podcast of what do industrial hygienists even do? I think it's important to realize that from the exposure science, toxicology or industrial hygienist or risk assessment paradigm is that we have a very specialized way of viewing a scenario and a specialized way of addressing it from that anticipate, recognize, evaluate, control methodology using that hierarchy of controls that we're all so familiar with. And I recently... had an interaction with someone. I'll just tell you what I'm seeing a lot. I've seen it before. Again, it seems to continually repeat itself. It's a problem when dealing with people that have issues that need help, and it's like they don't want to acknowledge they need the help because I don't know how they view it. But how I see it is essentially that There's no way to sugarcoat it. There's arrogance. There's an arrogance around people who think they know exposure science and what we do to protect health of employees. And honestly, you know, and we've probably all had those frustrations. And this is talking about the general public as well. But we've all had frustrations where arrogance gets in the way of doing something. And in this scenario, you know, there's potential that arrogance can get somebody killed. And what we are doing from an exposure science standpoint is making sure that we're reducing risks or addressing those risks or identifying and making sure we're mitigating them. But so let me, let me tell you a little, a small little story was recently was having a meeting with someone. And the whole predicate for the meeting was they had an inspection and there were some deficiencies noted during the inspection. And it was more than some. But one of the scenarios was the use of a particular chemical. And during the conversations, I had said, you know, hey, you know, looking at this from the hierarchy of controls, I said, okay, well, are you able to substitute that chemical out? Can you do this, you know, the same methodology or process or whatever you're doing with something different that we can identify that has similar efficacy but has less of a health hazard associated with it? And the response that I got was essentially, this is how we have always been doing it. This is what we're going to continue to do. And Exposure Science covers a broad subject area, including toxicology, industrial hygiene, and risk assessment. From occupational, community, or environmental exposure, exposure scientists apply scientific methodologies to understand exposure risks and apply controls when necessary. We at Exposure Assessment Consulting have this expertise. Please reach out to us at info at exposureconsulting.com for a free 15-minute consultation to discuss the specifics of your exposure scenario. You know, it was hard because what do you do in that scenario? That person thinks they know it all. And you're trying to explain to them, this is how they're doing it, period. And that arrogance is going to get in the way. There's ways to address it. There's ways to get us around it. But, you know, coming from the this is how we've always done it attitude is... how you endanger people in the first place. So you've got to get past that. So healthy people understand how to get past it. And I, you know, I don't know what the threshold is for having people understand that what they're doing needs to be changed based on the risk assessment that we do. It's hard to convey to them unless something very serious happens. You know, uh, it's, uh, I have seen, and you know what, I'm, I'm open to feedback here. I'm, you know, we have our new platform. You can go give voice messages. You can send me an email. You can call me. I'd love to talk. It's your opinions and thoughts on it, because how do you deal with people that are like that? Because honestly, the only way that I have seen to, I'll say not the only way, but the most effective way for them to come around is when there's somebody who's actually been seriously hurt in the workplace. And then they, Something clicks in their mind because until then it's all theoretical. Until then as well, it hasn't happened here. It's like when I talk about with the Legionella and facility water management plans, it's, it's the Legionella lottery. It always happens to everybody else until it happens to that person. And then what are they going to do? They have to play catch up. Same thing here. You have to play catch up. what do you do with these scenarios where people think they know everything, or this is how they've always done it. And they don't see a need to change that. You need to rate, make your plan, uh, around the process that they're doing, which puts an unneeded burden on more people because in their mind, well, this is how we do it. This is going to help work and continue to do it, but there's better ways to do it. There's different ways to do it. And some people just don't want to hear that. Some people, uh, are just so stuck in their ways and there's no getting around that. I think we've all encountered that. I remember someone relaying a story to me that, you know, they, they went to, they were industrial hygienists. They went to go see us, uh, a manufacturing facility and they'd go in the office. They, they relayed to me, I think it was something every few months they go in there every six months or whatever it was. And it wasn't until someone got seriously injured at work where they actually said, to the industrial hygienist. All right, come in my office. Let's have a talk. But what does it take getting to that point? Why does it need to be where someone makes that risk become reality for others to recognize that they need to be doing something? Wow. You know, we could probably get in the whole conversation of psychology here, which is beyond my expertise and knowledge, but I'm open to having this conversation. This is going to be a short podcast, but you know, I'm open to understanding from y'all. I'm happy to share that, happy to bring you on, you know, and maybe it's a podcast where we have a few different interviews of people. How do you deal or have you been successful dealing with those people that are so stuck in their ways that they will not do something until someone gets seriously hurt? It's a hard thing. And again, it happens to everybody else, not happen to them until it does. Hope everyone enjoyed this short but meaningful podcast today. It's, I think, a good conversation starter. Happy to have a conversation with you. As always, email, phone call, send a voice message on our new website. Let's see where maybe we can put our heads together and figure out how we can address these problems of people think that they know everything, that they're set in their ways, that they don't want the help that they're actually asking for. Tell something seriously. to an employee or someone that they love. Hope you enjoy this and I'll look forward to seeing you on the next podcast soon. Thanks so much. Take care. Thank you for listening to the Exposure Scientist podcast. You can connect with us at our website, exposureconsulting.com, where you can book a private consultation and send in any questions regarding any episodes or our guests. See you on the next episode.